CEO Jonathan Manzi SIM Swaps His Competitor

Check out this story where the CEO named Jonathan Manzi SIM swapped his competitor!

This is eCrimeBytes.com S 2 Ep 2-4: CEO Jonathan Manzi SIM Swaps His Competitor – Act 4: Manzi’s Response! Check out the prior acts for the background:

eCrimeBytes.com S 2 Ep 2-1: CEO Jonathan Manzi SIM Swaps His Competitor – Act 1: Meet The Players

eCrimeBytes.com S 2 Ep 2-2: CEO Jonathan Manzi SIM Swaps His Competitor – Act 2: Manzi Strikes Back

eCrimeBytes.com S 2 Ep 2-3: CEO Jonathan Manzi SIM Swaps His Competitor – Act 3: Manzi’s Plea

Sources:

Transcript:

00:00:10:00 – 00:00:26:20
Keith
Hey, welcome back to Crime Bytes act four Manzi’s response to the CEO, Jonathan Manzi, SIM swaps his competitor. All right, so where we left you in the last act was Jonathan Manzi

00:00:26:20 – 00:00:46:01
Keith
hacked back and I’m using air quotes again, a competitor, Troy Pepper and Wepa, in order to in his words, to get his data back, I guess that they stole from him when Troy Pepper left Ink, which was the company he was the CEO of.

00:00:46:04 – 00:01:01:27
Keith
And if you haven’t watched the prior acts, you really need to because this is there’s so much detail that that little recap that I just gave you is not going to give you the whole thing. So he went to court. He pled guilty.

00:01:01:27 – 00:01:06:24
Keith
He thought his minimum was six months. The judge came back and said, nope, I’m going to give you 18 months.

00:01:07:01 – 00:01:10:14
Keith
So what does Manzi do? He writes an article and

00:01:10:14 – 00:01:17:16
Keith
in this last concluding act, we’re going to talk about what Manzi wrote or what his response was to the sentencing.

00:01:17:16 – 00:01:27:18
Keith
Okay, I’m going to start this off. If you go back to act one and I said, hey, remember the whole Oppenheimer moment where we had to go black and white for a moment, give you the back story?

00:01:27:20 – 00:01:53:22
Keith
Well, I read an article and I said, We’re going to pause here and we’re going to read the rest of the article later. This article. This is what I read you. I started this is the beginning of it. I already read to you the beginning of it. So all that stuff you said up front where he he attended Stanford and he dropped out to start ink he all that stuff is true still.

00:01:53:22 – 00:02:19:07
Keith
So I’m going to continue on with what is new, he says. I also co-founded a blockchain based cybersecurity startup with the mission of securing Iot devices and critical infrastructure from bad actors. I’ll pause. Iot stands for Internet of Things. You can think of your refrigerator, your stove, anything that’s not really a full computer, but still on the internet, a thing.

00:02:19:07 – 00:02:36:00
Keith
Your TV. That would be a thing. So he’s saying he’s working on a startup based upon blockchain based cybersecurity for Internet of Things devices. Okay, so I’m going to jump back into his article.

00:02:36:00 – 00:02:49:03
Keith
Around this time, an employee left our company to join our only competitor in the higher ed market, meaning higher education. He had previously worked for them and then I had to pause for a second.

00:02:49:03 – 00:03:14:01
Keith
I was like, But dude, you knew that you hired him. But. All right, sorry. I do these little tangents on you as I’m thinking, going back into Manzi’s article here, he says, On the way out, an internal investigation determined he had taken important files and IP, which stands for intellectual property and was disparaging us in the marketplace in a state of fear.

00:03:14:03 – 00:03:38:17
Keith
I air quotes hacked back to assess what was taken and to mitigate the loss. I also developed a plan to counteract the disparagement. Due diligence on the competitor showed that there might be areas for concern about their corporate history, which the customers likely did not know about. In an anonymous letter to some of the competitors, customers and prospects.

00:03:38:19 – 00:03:40:12
Keith
I brought these to their attention

00:03:40:12 – 00:04:04:25
Seth
Manzi continues, after nearly three and a half years of litigation. On December 14th, I entered into a misdemeanor plea deal. The government argued that the anonymous emails I sent to the competitors prospects led to the loss of business. Fairly accurate, I would say, according to the big competitor. And I think it was competitors but okay, the prospects had allegedly, quote, verbally committed, close quote, prior to when the emails were sent.

00:04:04:25 – 00:04:27:10
Seth
And based on a loss analysis, the shortfall was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Indeed, we know this because the court seems to be about $600,000 and a desire to own up to my actions, reach a misdemeanor settlement before trial and move forward. I agreed to pay the amount. Now, he does have a footnote here, Jones, but I don’t remember what the footnote references. We’ll come back to that. The court scheduled a hearing to determine my fate.

00:04:27:13 – 00:04:37:24
Seth
So on April 20th, I was sentenced to 18 months in federal prison. The judge referenced the, quote, hack back, close, quote, circumstances and said he wanted to provide a deterrent to acting the way I did.

00:04:37:24 – 00:04:46:24
Keith
Yeah, most of his references are just the court documents and things like that. So he goes on to say, I didn’t expect the outcome.

00:04:46:24 – 00:05:07:05
Keith
One of my attorneys, Kellen Dwyer, who is co-chair of Alston and Birds National Security and Digital Crimes Team and who had previously worked as deputy assistant attorney general in the National Security Division, said he was not aware of anyone being charged with violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, where the motivation appears to have been purely defensive.

00:05:07:05 – 00:05:27:18
Keith
A former attorney to Ink, who is a former U.S. attorney, mentioned that he believed there would be a 1% chance the hack would result in prosecution after we reached a civil settlement in the matter with the competitor, Many of my friends, family and colleagues thought the sentence was indicative of a more systemic issue in the way justice

00:05:27:18 – 00:05:36:26
Keith
is currently administered. In my country, my friends living in other countries mentioned that the matter would have would not have been treated there.

00:05:36:26 – 00:05:54:14
Keith
At the time, I viewed what I did through the lens of Old Testament, an eye for an eye justice. Like many in the cyber community, I believe hack backs were ethical and the only recourse that could be deployed in a timely enough fashion to protect essential trade secrets and IP.

00:05:54:16 – 00:06:18:11
Keith
I got to pause here. Okay, listen, I don’t get into my background a whole hell of a lot on this podcast because Seth and I do this as a hobby. All right? In this case, our backgrounds really fucking matter in this. In this case. Okay. I have been an expert witness in federal court in computer forensics. Computer security is my life. Ok? My

00:06:18:11 – 00:06:52:12
Keith
doctorate is in cyber operations. That’s another word for computer security. Okay, I work in cybersecurity. This motherfucker cannot talk on behalf of cybersecurity industry. Most of the people that I know do not believe this. They do not believe you can hack back into somebody’s computer if if they took something from you. Most people I know would talk to some attorney or law enforcement individual first before going, I’m going to buy a phone.

00:06:52:15 – 00:07:16:18
Keith
I’m going to pretend to be my victim. I’m going to get my victim’s phone number switched to it. Then I’m going to go switch all his credentials. Then I’m going to steal his shit all in as retribution for something that may or may not be true. Okay, I don’t rant often on this, but I don’t rant often on his podcast.

00:07:16:18 – 00:07:37:07
Keith
But he was just very sweeping, saying that this is accepted in the cybersecurity community and I’m going to speak on behalf of the cyber security community and say we probably have a portion of people that believe the exact same thing that Jonathan Manzi believes that this is correct. And we have another big portion of people that believe that this is not correct.

00:07:37:07 – 00:07:43:23
Keith
And I’m telling you that a lot of people that I’ve met believe that this is not correct. And go ahead with what you’re going to say.

00:07:43:23 – 00:08:08:01
Seth
Yeah, a couple of things on this. So on the first paragraph, first of all, I would be very, very cautious of any person who is looking to do something that doesn’t smell right or is patently illegal or unethical based upon well, back in the Old Testament or through the lens of the Old Testament, the Old Testament says a lot of crazy shit, which doesn’t really apply today or should.

00:08:08:03 – 00:08:31:23
Seth
So that’s sketchy. Eye for an eye justice. Obviously that’s not legal, even admits that. But you know, the other side of this is and this ties to more my world. And I have a background that’s not nearly as tactical as Jones, but I’m in the same space. But I also am an attorney. And I can tell you that legally he would probably have enriched himself further by suing Wepa.

00:08:31:25 – 00:09:02:23
Seth
All right. If you could have established a couple of things. One, as a cybersecurity expert, this dude absolutely should have been able to access very simple logs that indicated there might have been a theft of intellectual property from ink by Mr. Pepper to Wepa. If it in fact happened, it would be very easy to look at the logs of of access of a file or the exfiltration, which is the unauthorized transfer of a file or the email as such, that if an email was sent out when Mr. Pepper was working, I think that should have been very, very easily apparent.

00:09:02:23 – 00:09:35:15
Seth
Or, or the other side of this is it is a rock, stone based bit of law that states that your intellectual property is only worth proportional to how much effort has been taken to secure it. So you can’t say that your IP is $1,000,000,000 if you have ten cent security on it. So if you really did have any kind of security controls on it and Mr. Pepper was such a bad actor or was able to steal it, he could have provided evidence of that, gone to law enforcement and civilly sued as well as criminally Wepa for millions of dollars.

00:09:35:17 – 00:09:58:00
Seth
You know, especially if you related to a new business idea tied to this many kiosks. So instead he actually cut himself off at the feet, lost a lot of money by trying to go and hack back. So I don’t think the dude is nearly as smart as he thinks he is. And B, I think he’s also clearly misrepresenting what, in fact, the right thing to do here would have been either either from an ethical perspective or from from a financial one.

00:09:58:03 – 00:10:15:20
Seth
Moreover, I have to take a harder look at the 2017 updates to the Cybersecurity Act, but I have a hard time believing that it actively allows ethical hack backs. I just don’t believe that I have. Take a look at it though. So more to come on that Jones and I will probably opine on that in a later episode.

00:10:15:22 – 00:10:37:23
Keith
So I’ll finish out just this little portion here and I’ll switch over to Seth here. This is where he starts talking about the law and feel free to pause any time here, Seth, because this is more your your background, the mine, which he goes on to say the law is catching up with this point of view, which is the eye for the eye.

00:10:37:25 – 00:11:03:26
Keith
If you remember, the last thing we were talking about was the eye for the eye. So the next thing he says is the law is catching up with this point of view. The Act of Cyber Defense Certainty Act, a bipartisan bill proposed to Congress in 2017 and 2019 would provide an exception to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act federal hacking law enacted before the Internet to allow hack backs as a form of cyber self-defense.

00:11:03:28 – 00:11:30:16
Keith
Recently, the Biden administration unveiled a new policy that will empower U.S. agencies to retaliate against hackers with counterattacks. Also, the Department of Justice in a joint initiative with the Commerce Department, has launched a hack back squad to stop tech theft. And before I turn it over to you, Seth, I have to stop and my thought on this is this is wonderful.

00:11:30:18 – 00:12:08:12
Keith
But you’ve named a bunch of places that are defending attacks against foreign nations, spies and terrorists, not your printing kiosk competitor, where you could just easily change permissions and your information and secure it. So it’s quite a bit different scenario to say what I am doing hacking back with Troy Pepper and Wepa is the exact same thing as the U.S. Hacking back to bin Laden is that’s apples and oranges in my opinion.

00:12:08:12 – 00:12:13:00
Seth
It’s it’s a false equivalency at best, and it’s megalomaniacal at worst

00:12:13:00 – 00:12:30:05
Seth
for sure. I think that you’ve kind of hit it already. So Manzi continues that quote, In conversations about what happened, there invariably comes a moment when it is time for me to provide my take. So like, all right, you know, cure of the meme of eating popcorn here, I respect the judge’s sentence.

00:12:30:05 – 00:12:51:09
Seth
I understand the benefits of deterrence more significant to me than policy considerations, though, is that I don’t hold the worldview I did at the time when I hacked back. So it’s basically saying, don’t judge me for what I did, judge me for what I’m saying. Now I’ve learned that ethics and law don’t always meet in the middle, and sometimes in emerging areas like technology, the might might end up miles apart.

00:12:51:12 – 00:13:16:11
Seth
I’ve also experienced the merits of different ethical models. I’m not sure what experience he has on differing ethical models. That’s interesting. He must have read some kind of Saint Thomas Aquinas or some shit consequential where ends justify the means gives us tempting logic like effective altruism and hack backs. Again, I think it’s just an odd thing that he’s automatically assuming a hack back is effective altruism.

00:13:16:11 – 00:13:37:05
Seth
I think it’s not. But at the end of the day, although they may be born from good intent, they deprive us. He’s talking about those hacked back ethics of the miracles and beauty which come from an independently pure motive, one which doesn’t need to be justified. It’s almost like he found some kind of God. Now I find it interesting that he never mentions a homeless lady.

00:13:37:08 – 00:13:39:23
Seth
I’m not sure unless we’re missing. Oh, yeah.

00:13:39:25 – 00:13:42:16
Keith
He does. I actually. I cut out a whole bunch.

00:13:42:16 – 00:13:42:27
Seth
Of that.

00:13:43:04 – 00:14:05:10
Keith
Because there’s a whole, like, spiritual thing that he goes down and I’m like, This is going to be the whole podcast if we read this whole thing. And I’m not it’s not that I’m hiding it from from our viewers, by the way. I’m not hiding this or anything this. If you haven’t checked out the sources on the end of every episode, like every act and everything where we post this, I have the sources.

00:14:05:10 – 00:14:24:23
Keith
And if you go click in there, every one of these are linked. And this article is one of the sources. You can read this thing in the entirety. It’s public. Yeah, on LinkedIn. So if you’re interested in that part of it, go for it. Didn’t really relate, in my opinion, to what he did. So I pulled out just the chunks he did, and that did include the references.

00:14:24:23 – 00:14:29:12
Keith
In case we want to talk about any of these references at the end as well.

00:14:29:15 – 00:14:31:13
Seth
Yeah. I mean, so, you know, in terms of one of the

00:14:31:13 – 00:14:54:12
Seth
one of those references was number five, just talking about how the $600,000 restitution was specifically based upon those like lost income or know profit versus, you know, the hack back as a punitive situation. I mean, I’m assuming that’s what happened essentially here, is that he, you know, took a plea so that he wouldn’t have to, I guess, you know, get charged with a heavier duty crime.

00:14:54:14 – 00:15:10:10
Seth
But yeah, I would definitely recommend everybody take a read if you have 20 minutes to kill on Mr. Manzi’s soliloquy here. But apparently, you know, if you cut the the B.S. so he’s claiming, yeah, it may or may not have been wrong, but now that I have a much better set of ethics that I follow. I understand what happened.

00:15:10:10 – 00:15:31:11
Seth
And, you know, all is right with the world. And maybe that’s fine if he’s still a millionaire. And ultimately, you know, getting a 6 to 8 month vacation isn’t the worst thing for him. But like I said, it’s a little scary. I think people in this country hold CEOs, whether self-made, younger guys like this guy or, you know, an older generation of CEOs to the standard that they can do no wrong.

00:15:31:17 – 00:15:46:11
Seth
It may have gotten President Trump elected, but at the same time, you know, they’re human and they certainly can do some extremely ethically questionable stuff, as noted here. And I think people should be judged on their actions and what they do and not what their titles are.

00:15:46:11 – 00:15:55:12
Keith
And with that, we’re at the end of the case. So Manzi made his statement and that is it. I imagine at some point he’s going to be going in for his

00:15:55:12 – 00:16:09:25
Keith
18 months. So some concluding thoughts. My very first one is I want you to leave here as a listener if you hear the term hacking back, that’s still illegal.

00:16:09:28 – 00:16:28:02
Keith
Okay. We read to you varying viewpoints in this podcast. Manzi says, I don’t really think it’s illegal, but it’s still illegal. He’s spending 18 months in prison or going to spend 18 months in prison because of this. It is illegal.

00:16:28:04 – 00:16:38:05
Seth
Yeah, I would even argue that if they didn’t get him back on, you know, specific elements of the computer fraud and abuse, there are probably five other ways it could have packaged his actions,

00:16:38:05 – 00:16:46:12
Seth
you know, impersonating somebody else or defrauding. You know, there would have been several other avenues they could have gone down. I think that might have been the most direct route, though.

00:16:46:14 – 00:17:04:09
Seth
The other thing and I mentioned this earlier, there are remedies for someone who steals your intellectual property, right? A He should have had every opportunity to have the logs of what had occurred. And presented his case both at a civil and a criminal situation, and he probably would have enriched himself further rather than where he ended up.

00:17:04:09 – 00:17:07:24
Seth
So he didn’t explore any of that before SIM swapping.

00:17:08:00 – 00:17:25:16
Seth
And as you know, we listed a couple that you could have put forth a cease and desist. He could have requested an injunction or a temporary restraining order, and he could have filed a civil lawsuit for theft of IP and unjust enrichment and breach of contract. If there was a contract with Mr. Pepper as an employee, there was a lot he could have done here.

00:17:25:16 – 00:17:46:19
Seth
None of that was attempted. So moving on, Manzi paid out two thirds of the restitution already as directed by a separate lawsuit. So I don’t think that’s even the full story here. Clearly, there was other pieces of this case. I’m pretty sure Wepa went after him pretty hard on a civil scenario as well. So we know that indirectly he had paid back some money on this.

00:17:46:20 – 00:17:49:04
Seth
Now, what’s interesting is it could have been the inverse.

00:17:49:04 – 00:17:49:25
Seth
Yeah.

00:17:49:27 – 00:17:51:13
Keith
It could have been. All right.

00:17:51:13 – 00:18:20:09
Keith
I have one more concluding thought on this, which is this is not a one off. So I told you a little bit about my background earlier in this episode. I’ve investigated a lot of cases. It is very common for an employee to leave and either intentionally or accidentally take files with them, thinking that they’re they own them when they’re leaving an employer, either because they resigned or because they’re fired.

00:18:20:12 – 00:18:51:24
Seth
So this happens so much. So I’m sorry to interrupt you, Jones. I want to make this clear. This happens shockingly often, and it’s not quite as simple as a this is wrong, but I’m going to do it anyway. A lot of times there are confusing elements as to what is in fact truly owned. But most companies will adopt the position that if something resides on their corporate network unless it was completely brought in in a way that was illegal or unethical, it is owned by that corporate network.

00:18:51:24 – 00:19:08:00
Seth
So if you take a document that you started right, let’s say you had a client list and then you add 20 names to that client list. The whole client list is owned by the corporate entity that it was residing on. And you can argue that that’s not fair and not true. And there’s a whole bunch of case law that talks about this.

00:19:08:00 – 00:19:16:21
Seth
But this is a ongoing issue that happens all the time. As I said, statistically speaking, people who leave companies tend to take things with them.

00:19:16:21 – 00:19:17:02
Keith
Yeah.

00:19:17:02 – 00:19:36:28
Keith
All right. So was he right to hack back? This is the question I want to leave our readers with, and I’ll tell you my viewpoint on it. And I’m curious, what your’s is Seth. I think I probably can predict your’s Seth, but it’s probably going be similar to mine, which is I do not think he was right to hack back.

00:19:37:01 – 00:20:12:07
Keith
I thought this more of a lame excuse after he got caught it. I don’t think he thought he was hacking back when he was doing it. I think he was just I think it was probably a very quick, adrenaline based decision when he found out that Troy Pepper left and went to a competitor and probably things got out of hand very quickly once he got the phone and got that everything switched over where, you know, he just had keys to the kingdom at that point.

00:20:12:10 – 00:20:28:07
Keith
And then after he got caught, he was probably like, I need an explanation of why I did this. And hacking back was the most altruistic sounding reason for what he did, in my opinion. What do you think, Seth?

00:20:28:10 – 00:20:48:13
Seth
I mean, I think I look at this as I kind of at two different levels, right? Directly at the direct level. As I said earlier, he had significantly better options at his disposal, especially if he claims he’s part of the cyber community. He should have been able to log the activity that Pepper apparently took and he could have sued criminally and civilly.

00:20:48:13 – 00:21:06:28
Seth
I probably would have gotten a better deal financially than what he ended up paying out. It would have been looked at upon as a hero. And it, of course, would have done the right thing and the legal thing at a at a more deep level, You know, whether you’re an Old Testament type person and you believe, then you should also believe in turn the other cheek.

00:21:07:01 – 00:21:26:28
Seth
I guess that’s New Testament. I don’t know. I’m Jewish, but, you know, I look at it very simply, like if somebody punches me at a bar. All right? And it’s not something where I feel like I have to physically defend myself, but it’s a one time thing I can punch the dude back and then we’re both going to probably get arrested and then we’re both going to have legal problems.

00:21:27:01 – 00:21:48:17
Seth
Or I could make sure that it’s documented, go to the doctor, assess the damage, all Right. You know, check my ego at the door, and then sue that dude and then sue the bar where it happened. And, you know, really, you know, make sure that it’s done through the appropriate lens of our civil discourse and civil society and still get, you know, I think what I deserve in that scenario.

00:21:48:17 – 00:22:08:12
Seth
Right. And I know you may sound like, oh, sure, the lawyer, the Jewish guy is going to make money at it. I’m just saying you could put yourself into an equally worse or shitty situation by kind of dropping down into that level of wrongdoing. Or you can do right thing and be a big boy about it and handle things in an adult fashion that ultimately will work out better for you anyway.

00:22:08:15 – 00:22:25:22
Seth
So I think it’s really just and I think a lot of people in society, including some of our elected officials, love to get down and dirty and act like they’re tough. But ultimately, I think that is not only likely illegal and unethical, but it’s really not the smart play either. The smart play, it’s kind of like chess versus checkers, right?

00:22:25:22 – 00:22:40:05
Seth
I mean, if you really want to be trying to look think three moves ahead of what if I do this? What are the ramifications of this happening? But if I do that, this actually three steps down the road puts me in a much better scenario. And I know that’s hard to do when you’re in the thick of it.

00:22:40:05 – 00:22:49:22
Seth
And obviously this guy felt personally wronged and was very angry and maybe there was fear that he was going to lose his business. But you know, as a CEO millionaire, he should have known better.

00:22:49:22 – 00:23:07:20
Keith
Yeah, I feel the same way. And I want to go on record that the Jewish guy made the first Jewish joke. So there we go. We yeah, I will say I do have a pretty pro Jewish joke coming up in one of my episodes. If you know you got an episode.

00:23:07:23 – 00:23:11:07
Seth
You got to be very careful.

00:23:11:10 – 00:23:37:19
Keith
All right. So how do you reach us? You go to our Web site. That’s the number one spot. If you’ve already listened to us on your favorite podcasting app or YouTube or wherever you watch us, our website is, e Crime bytes, it’s e, c, r i, m e, b y as in yellow milk t e s dot com. And you’re going, Why does he say Y and yellow milk?

00:23:37:19 – 00:24:05:01
Keith
Because we had an episode all about well, it wasn’t all about, but there was an important part about kids being forced to drink milk that was thawed, that was frozen and because it was frozen, it changes the consistency and the color and it changes to yellow. Yeah. But anyways, back to our website. If you go across the top, if you’re on your desktop computer, you’re going to be able to see all the links, all our social links.

00:24:05:03 – 00:24:08:11
Keith
YouTube is up there. If you want to go see the videos,

00:24:08:11 – 00:24:28:00
Keith
if you’re on your phone, there’s like this little hamburger thing. There’s like a three liner up in the upper right hand corner. If you click on that, that same top bar, basically drops down on your phone and you can see all those links and you can go to Instagram if you like that Facebook or YouTube, you name it.

00:24:28:02 – 00:24:53:05
Keith
There’s a couple important things on there that we have a newsletter. If you sign up for that, I will send you notifications. There’s a glossary on there that will help ease the pain of some of these terms that were thrown around that we do try to keep up to date. Now, the last thing, if you’re like, I love this podcast or I love this topic that we talked about, that’s awesome.

00:24:53:07 – 00:25:18:13
Keith
To pay us back involves no money on your part. We will probably never ask you for money. All we want. Probably if you like it, probably all we want If you have the time, please just five star us if you’re on Apple Podcasts, that’s very important because half of our audio listeners are on Apple Podcasts and that lets other Apple podcasters find out about us.

00:25:18:13 – 00:25:52:06
Keith
You know, write a review. If you like certain topics tell us, if you know of cases that you would think are interesting. Tell us if you are on whatever app you’re watching or listening to us on. Make sure you subscribe so that way you’re getting notified when we come out with new acts and new episodes and we try to do a new episode every week, and then depending on how long that episode is, we chop it up into about 2 to 5 acts, no more than five, because there’s five days, but usually two or more acts.

00:25:52:08 – 00:26:29:27
Keith
And that’s how we’re doing. Season two, I want to thank you for coming and listening to the CEO, Jonathan Manzi, who SIM swaps a competitor. And I had a blast on this episode. I’m going to give you a real quick, real, real quick tour of our next episode, and that is the boasting fraudster J. Nicholas Bryant. And you’re going to see that this individual I was almost going to call him gentleman, but I after what I read, I don’t think I could put him in the gentleman category.

00:26:30:00 – 00:26:55:28
Keith
This individual was able to commit fraud in the millions of dollars range in a very short amount of time. We’re talking like days and he’s flying to Miami and overseas and he’s on yachts and he’s shooting rare animals for tens of thousands of dollars. It’s just amazing. An amazing case, just like hopefully every other case we’ve brought to you.

00:26:56:00 – 00:27:01:05
Keith
And I hope you come back for it and see on that one. Did you have anything else for this case us before I take us all?

00:27:01:07 – 00:27:09:29
Seth
Nothing other than I had fun with this one. I think the new multi act is a little bit more digestible for our audience. I hope that we get some feedback on that.

00:27:10:01 – 00:27:10:15
Keith
And at some

00:27:10:15 – 00:27:28:12
Seth
point you’re going to have to reenact what young Mr. Jones and his siblings had to endure when they were told to just drink that said yellow milk. You were like, I don’t want to drink yellow milk. I have to imagine that there’s comedy, there’s high comedy, and then there’s that. So I would love to hear that at some point.

00:27:28:15 – 00:27:49:06
Keith
Yeah, absolutely. Actually, I just saw my brother recently for our summer trip and we usually compare things to yellow milk. Like if we look at something and he’s like, That’s gross. Well, yeah, but is it yellow milk gross? Uh, all right. With that, I hope to see you back to talk about J. Nicholas Bryant in the next episode.

00:27:49:08 – 00:27:50:15
Keith
Thanks. Bye.

00:27:50:17 – 00:27:52:29
Seth
Thanks, all.

#ecrimebytes #cybersecurity #computer #electronic #truecrime #podcast #security #hacker #humor #funny #comedy #simswap #sim #swap #ip #ceo #hack

DrKeithJones.com

CEO Jonathan Manzi SIM Swaps His Competitor – Act 4: Manzi’s Response

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